[12:16] *** emijrp joined #setiquest. [15:50] *** emijrp left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds [15:50] *** emijrp joined #setiquest. [17:00] *** Michael1234 joined #setiquest. [17:12] *** sigblips joined #setiquest. [17:21] *** janebird joined #setiquest. [17:35] *** leash joined #setiquest. [17:49] *** leash left irc: Quit: Page closed [17:52] *** emijrp left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds [17:52] *** emijrp joined #setiquest. [17:54] *** leash joined #setiquest. [17:58] *** _Jens_ joined #setiquest. [17:59] <_Jens_> good evening everybody [17:59] *** jrseti_ joined #setiquest. [17:59] <_Jens_> hello Jon [18:00] *** nanobattery joined #setiquest. [18:00] Hello! [18:00] Hi there! [18:00] <_Jens_> hey Harry [18:01] Heh, no sign of Ed yet.. [18:01] All, it is 11am, we can start the meeting [18:01] <_Jens_> what's on the agenda today, Jon? [18:01] AGENDA: 1) Forum watchers [18:01] 2) Open Source projects and setiQuest Explorer 3) Galaxy Zoo [18:02] 4) Sigblips and the AWS [18:02] ( 1): That's us - Jens, Ed (who isn't here yet), and me, Harry.) [18:02] Wow, I'm a topic! [18:02] Always [18:02] any other topics? [18:03] 1) Forum watchers. We got 3 people: Harry, Jens and Ed. [18:04] This weekend I was alerted to 2 forum posts i should reply to. I swear I'll reply to them today! [18:04] Heh, okay, great ;) [18:05] I think this is really going to help. I did find one that Jill should respond to, and after I alerted her to the post, she replied a long post. [18:05] If anyone sees a forum post that should be responded to by a SETI employee - let me know [18:05] <_Jens_> sure [18:06] Yep - we'll do our best [18:06] I'm sure you will! [18:06] <_Jens_> I've got a technical question [18:07] <_Jens_> I've noticed that some blog entrys are shown in the "Newsdesk" - "From the Forum" section. And some forum postings aren't (I posted something in Q&A today). Which postings appear there? [18:09] There is a bit of delay because of the way the setiQuest Newsdeck works. [18:09] The delay always seems too long [18:10] But then there's also the problem of blog posts showing up in the wrong section - for instance, right now, the very first item in the "From the Forum" section actually links to the blog, not the forum [18:10] Those are blog comments. [18:10] the forum links get updated every time the cron program is run. which is about once an hour. we can pep that up. [18:11] Right, so blog comments count as forum posts? [18:11] As to where the comments appear, we can move them around. nanobattery, you missed an earlier debate in which it was felt that blogs and forum should have the same treatment. I am agnostic on that point [18:11] Ah right, sorry. (Only been around for a week or so ;).) [18:12] <_Jens_> Hey Michael, are there some sub-forums excluded from having their postings shown at the newsdesk? [18:12] I am just happy that the blog comments are consolidated all in one place. The majority of the blog comments have been spam. So the list makes it much easier to spot them. [18:12] um, I don't think so, but lemme check [18:12] <_Jens_> I ask since my posting is 11 hrs old and hasn't shown up. [18:13] *** emijrp left irc: Remote host closed the connection [18:13] it wasn't about baby shoes, was it? [18:14] <_Jens_> no, that was the spam :) [18:14] lol. It seems that all comments go to the feed. Let me poke around. WHat is your username? [18:14] <_Jens_> I asked about the progress of the closed SETIQuest Explorer beta in the Q&A-section [18:14] <_Jens_> My username is Jens [18:15] Makes sens [18:15] <_Jens_> yeah, very creative - I know :) [18:16] <_Jens_> would have preffered to name myself that way here as well, but seemingly someone registered that nickname before me :) [18:16] I understand 1234. YOur post was about follow-up? [18:17] <_Jens_> http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setiquest-explorer <-- that one [18:17] okay, let's table that rather than having everybody wait [18:18] <_Jens_> yeah, good idea [18:19] besides, I just figured it out. It seems that you'll get posted when there's a comment. Oops. I can fix this. [18:20] *** Jill_ joined #setiquest. [18:21] Greetings! [18:21] <_Jens_> Probably a good idea, especially since things are yet somewhat quieter. [18:21] Next topic? 2) Open Source projects and setiQuest Explorer [18:21] This topic is easy - I have none nothing on these projects over the last week [18:22] <_Jens_> hello Jill! [18:22] hello Jens [18:23] Jens and nanobattery are helping up mind the forum [18:23] Aye that we do - and so does ED, but he's not here. [18:24] <_Jens_> Jon, which leads me to the posting I wrote earlier - what exactly is going on right now? So the closed group of people is still testing and testing and finding new bugs, which are being fixed? [18:24] sorry i'm late --- i never allow enough time for traffic [18:24] Heh, I guess if ET makes the same mistake we're in trouble [18:24] what closed group? [18:25] <_Jens_> well. It's not a public beta yet as I understand it. [18:25] setiQuest explorer has been opened up to all who have signed up to beta [18:25] Francis Potter did that at the end of July [18:26] If you are having trouble signing up - let me knopw [18:26] we've been looking at the responses of the testers - i.e. how many assignments they complete, how many patterns they mark etc. [18:27] <_Jens_> Hum, strange. I still cannot access it. Still get the "Thanks for registering for the private beta program. We'll contact you when the program begins, with further information." Maybe because I use Google as authentication? [18:27] what URL are you using to sign up? [18:28] <_Jens_> http://live.seti.hg94.com/ [18:29] I just now signed up as a new user using Google. It let me start exp[loring. Could this be a browser cache issue? [18:30] works for me too [18:31] <_Jens_> I don't think so - I'm using a computer at work right now and get the same result at home. I also never received any email or so [18:31] Poor jens [18:31] <_Jens_> haha. So my question in the forum earlier obviously is kinda outdated. [18:32] maybe we should stall posting all questions till we have answers. Hmm, might not be a good strategy for SETI [18:32] jrseti - have you heard any more from the two guys at GSFC who were trying to convert this to iphone platform? [18:32] Topc 3) Galaxy Zoo [18:32] Jill - no - I will send an email now and try to get that moving [18:33] we are still looking for a project scientist for GZ [18:33] job is advertised on AAS job site because they want someone with experience with large astronomical databases [18:34] Any applicants? [18:34] where else should we post? i've not seen any applications. [18:35] I'd imagine that the accent should be on "large databases" rather than "astronomical". To the programmer, it's just another datum [18:35] So, general programming job sites, where these folk are plentiful [18:35] I agree with Michael +1 [18:36] For some reason they want a "scientist". [18:36] these guys seem pretty inbred - from Oxford astonomical community - i've just sent an inquiry and will make your suggestion [18:36] Yeah, and I want Picasso to paint my house, but that really may not be the person to get the job done. [18:37] er, you may not want to pass on that exact language... [18:37] that's because they want this to be citizen science project, not just service computing or click work [18:37] Bakers make donuts, technicians run experiments, scientists design projects, programmers program. [18:38] yes, and it is the design of the project that we are all struggling with right now. [18:38] But as to the GZ project, it really does depend on what the job function is [18:39] so if I am speaking (typing) out of ignorance than I take it all back [18:39] you speak from lots of practical experience - never sounds like ignorance to me [18:40] Just been around this stuff for a while. Seen what happens when scientists try to design data systems. [18:41] About Galaxy Zoo - when complete this will be feeding real-time signal data from the ATA to the Internet. This will probably replace the need for the setiData. Jill - do you agree with that? [18:42] or when high energy physicists thrown out of work when SCSC was cancelled end up on Wall Street inventing non-linear investment vehicles [18:43] *** Michael1234 left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [18:43] Gerry and i have been discussing. since we know ATA will not be available for hours each day when it is collecting data for space situational awareness - we either need to steer volunteers to the signal identification parts of project or have another data source. [18:44] So all - stay tuned [18:44] *** Michael1234 joined #setiquest. [18:44] <_Jens_> wb Michael [18:44] ty [18:45] *** devon_hillard joined #setiquest. [18:45] have you discussed Gerry's plans to make more data available and a tool kit with which to manipulate it? [18:45] Not yet [18:45] A setiData library of unique sources is a valuable resource for anyone interested in getting started looking at the data. [18:46] documented on the wiki? [18:46] what about the hoards of people (relatively speaking) starting to work at the ATA today? [18:46] After this meeting I am driving to the ATA [18:46] the ATA is up? [18:47] I thought they still needed funding [18:47] take pictures. We can post. [18:47] <_Jens_> hello devon [18:47] We got funding! setiStars.org [18:47] allen telescope array, right? [18:47] yes [18:47] we are finally in a position to start bringing the array out of hibernation - since it wasn't built to hibernate, we have to do that carefully to make sure we don't break anything [18:48] did paul allen fork over the rest of the money for it? [18:48] I'll take pictures over the next 2 days and post what is being done. I am sure people will be interested. [18:48] @devon: not quite, go to setistars.org - it was a community-driven effort, so to speak [18:49] Paul Allen did not donate any new funds [18:49] http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches [18:49] he probably didn't want to get the project too dependent on his money :) [18:49] no Paul Allen did the courageous bit of investing up front. SETI Stars are 2600+ individual donors [18:50] like astronaut Bill Anders (Apollo 8) and Jodie Foster ---- they gave us huge visibility [18:50] I am impressed at how well this went [18:50] well, I am more excited about the astronomy thing than the seti thing :) [18:50] and it will start a new phase of operation when we are back looking at the sky - stay tuned! [18:50] Do we have time to discuss some non-trivial forum-related issues? There are a few things we can do to create a more vibrant online SQ community [18:51] I can stay [18:51] <_Jens_> me too. [18:51] I think aliens would rather use optical or above to communicate, using tight beams [18:51] sadly astronomy will get little emphasis for a while, with UCB backing out as our partner. we are looking for new astronomical partners. [18:51] due to the bandwidth and less dispersion [18:51] we should probably let Sigblips talk about his work on the Amazon Web Service [18:52] okay, fair enough ;) [18:52] Jill - haven't heard about UCB backing out [18:52] Sorry - yes I have ! [18:52] Jill_ is Jill Tarter? [18:53] yes - their inablility to provide operating funds was the whole reason for hibernation crisis. [18:53] sigblips has done a lot of great work on AWS [18:53] +1 [18:54] Sigblips - fill us in [18:54] An EBS disk of setiData on AWS broke. Most of the data has been restored. Some is still missing. There is now a backup plan. [18:54] I [18:54] wow, i thought that was ~impossible [18:54] our bad, we did too! [18:55] *** leash left irc: Quit: Page closed [18:55] Gerry has some new datasets that I'm going to copy over and put online. [18:56] I'm also consolidating so that there are more available resources for Galaxy setiZoo. We were at 75% donation capacity. [18:57] I'm grateful you were able to figure out how close we are to capacity [18:58] ah... is that 75% capacity across S3 and EC2 or just one flavor? [18:58] Jill_: All, combined. [18:59] my lunch visitor has arrived. i'll sign off now. [18:59] bye [18:59] *** Jill_ left irc: Quit: Page closed [19:00] We are at the end of the hour. [19:00] Anyone wanna stay and talk forum? [19:00] nanobattery - you wanted to stay on and discuss the forum? [19:00] <_Jens_> yeah, I'd like to [19:00] Okey doke [19:01] <_Jens_> Michael, just so that I get it right: You administer the whole forum or even the whole website? [19:01] The whole setiquest.org website [19:01] and the wiki. [19:01] by default because nobody else knows drupal [19:02] ... and the wiki [19:02] Sorry - was AFK [19:02] wb [19:02] Forum - yep [19:03] I think we should really enable users to actually upload avatar pictures and a signature [19:03] That's standard on most forums that aim to create some kind of community [19:03] <_Jens_> I see. And sigblips - you are much into the scientific part of data analyzing? [19:04] Yes I do like analyzing signals. [19:04] I agree, and should be able to enable that. There are a number of updates to apply fiirst, but the pics should be pretty straightforward. I have set that up elsewhere. Signatures I need to check, but should be easy too [19:04] Okay, great [19:04] There's also the issue of replies in threads not appearing in chronological order [19:05] To me, this is somewhat cumbersome and confusing, but maybe that's just me [19:05] But they are threaded, yes? [19:05] Yyes.. I think [19:05] we can change that. I took the site as configured, assuming that everything was PERFECT before I showed up. [19:05] guys - sorry - I gotta go. Off for a long drive to the ATA [19:06] The forum uses threaded reverse chronological order. [19:06] Okay, see ya! Have fun ;) [19:06] <_Jens_> have fun Jon. Wish I could come with you. Must be nice seeing it for real [19:06] I'll take pictures! [19:06] *** jrseti_ left irc: Remote host closed the connection [19:06] Reverse chronological order - okay, that makes sense now. Does anybody else think that we should switch to straightforward chronological order? [19:07] It's a great trip. ANd you can go to the science park in Redding too. at Turtle Bay. Must see [19:07] whups. too easily distracted [19:08] I do not like having to scroll down on a long thread, but it's pretty frequent. What I REALLY do not want to do [19:08] is change the format every couple of months, since that ticks folk off [19:08] agreed, that wouldn't be wise [19:09] We'll.. how do we settle this? To switch now or not to switch, ever? [19:10] maybe take a look at similar topic forums and see if there is a consistent approach? Being consistent with GZ and Seti@home and astro forums, if there is a consistent approach might be smartest [19:10] even if they all do it differently from what each of us may think best [19:10] At first I didn't like the reverse chronological ordering but I've since gotten used to it. [19:11] <_Jens_> As far as I remember in the S@H-Forum it's chronologically ordered from the past to the present [19:11] just checked: the GZ forum is chronologically ordered, as far as I can tell [19:11] so, oldest on top? [19:11] aye, that's what I'm seeing [19:12] <_Jens_> yeah - same for s@h - just checked [19:12] I can change to that with a clicl of a mouse! How about I do that, and post a note letting folks know of the change [19:13] That would be most awesome. One click to rule them all ;) [19:14] done [19:14] Ah, very good [19:14] <_Jens_> cool. [19:14] <_Jens_> Just checked the TeamSETI-Forum - there it also seems to be chronological [19:15] Right, I think that just about covers all the forum-related issues that I can remember [19:15] it really makes more sense if following the conversation, rather than looking a the latest rant [19:15] okay, Jens, any thoughts? [19:16] <_Jens_> So do ergonomically more advanced keyboad layouts - the standard still is QWERTY or QWERTZ here :) [19:16] That changed the order in the forum listing but not the ordering within the comment. [19:16] I'll take a look. [19:17] I may also have to clear caches [19:17] <_Jens_> hum. At this time no other suggestion here. Just that Harry thought of establishing some forum rules. [19:17] Ah yes, I thought of it! Now I remember [19:17] <_Jens_> And we,, [19:18] is Jill_ the actual Jill Tarter? [19:18] <_Jens_> And well - yet it doesn't seem neccessary. But it might become that way. [19:18] Jill is THE Jill, yes [19:19] The 'Terms of Use' at the bottom of the forum page gives a page not found error. If we fix that and put some basic forum rules there, we'll always have something to point to in a troll emergency [19:19] Maybe having forum rules is overkill at this stage, but if we expect the community to grow we should be prepared, I think [19:20] As to forum rules, I am a believer in dealing with it when it comes up. But someone musta changed the TOU page. I hope not me. I'll see if I can find them, though I recall nothing about not being a troll. We had one, we banned him. [19:20] Did we really want to change the order of the forum index listing? Now you have to jump to the end to see any new comments or replies. [19:20] there, ya see!!! [19:20] heh [19:20] <_Jens_> uhm. Just realized. I think the chronological order would be the other way round. - Having the new topics shown first, but the postings in the topic being ordered with the oldest one first... [19:20] as I said, I am agnostic. we can click it back [19:21] Wait - isn't the way it's configured right now consistent with the other sites? [19:21] GZ and seti@Home? [19:21] I thought we were talking about the reverse chronological order within a comment. [19:21] Should be, IMHO topics newest to oldest, comments oldest to newest [19:22] but again, I am agnostic [19:22] I agree. [19:22] <_Jens_> Michael: Yeah, that's what I meant [19:22] <_Jens_> And that's how it is in the other forums. Just checked S@H again [19:22] okay, if by 'comment' you mean 'post within a forum thread', then yeah, I agree [19:23] Okay, I changed the wrong thing. That's the trouble with an itchy mouse finger [19:23] _Jens_ How what is? We are talking about two different things. [19:24] <_Jens_> Actually I'm in agreement with all of you. As Michael put it: Topics newest to oldest, comments (postings within a forum thread) oldest to newest [19:24] Yeah: scroll down within a thread to find the newest post, but the newest thread in a particular subforum is always at the top [19:25] That's the way it is in the other forums - if we want to depart from that convention, it might be confusing [19:25] okay, so, comments newest to oldest, but threaded. [19:25] Get ready to blow your mind...... [19:26] Uhh.. [19:26] <_Jens_> :) [19:26] That IS how it is set up, according to the software... [19:27] Right - sigblips, are you okay with that? [19:27] <_Jens_> Hum. Is the confusing part the threaded view within the comments then? [19:27] yep [19:28] I can increase the indent on the threads to make it more obvious [19:28] Yes, threading in the comments is what I thought we were talking about. [19:29] right. Is there anything wrong with it? [19:29] <_Jens_> well, then at least in my opinion we shouldn't have threaded comments. The problem there also is that in case of many replies, the window with the comment gets thinner and thinner [19:30] Now we are talking about three different things. [19:30] yep [19:30] lol, yeah ;) [19:30] <_Jens_> hum. Maybe I [19:31] but changing to unthreaded comments now would likely REALLY confuse the forum. We can take a look at the postings... [19:31] Okay: as far as I can see, the way things are configured in the SQ forum right now is consistent with the other forums, except for the fact that we have threaded comments, and the others don't [19:31] Also, and this is the other mindblower, an individual user can change how she sees the forum. [19:32] So the unthreading can be checked out as a test [19:32] The forum listing is now back to reverse chronological order. http://setiquest.org/forums/welcome-setiquest I like it like that. What are your thoughts? [19:32] go to setiquest.org/user [19:32] yeah, I reverted [19:33] looking for the per-user setup, it's documented but not visible [19:33] The order with a comment is still threaded reverse chronological order. http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches Can it be changed? Do we want to change this? [19:34] The order within a comment ... [19:34] it is threaded oldest to newest, right? [19:34] It has been threaded newest to oldest. [19:35] so that the oldest comment is at the top, and then any replies to that comment [19:35] <_Jens_> oldest to newest within the comments seems good. [19:36] weird. I thought I fixed that [19:36] <_Jens_> But michael: How can I change the settings for myself, that I don't see comments threaded but chronologically? Or isn't that possible? [19:36] Newest to oldest? I'm seeing oldest to newest here : http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches [19:36] Hmm. What comment do you see first here http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches ? The graph or this http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches#comment-2120 reply? [19:37] hold on, changing settings [19:37] we are now at threaded, oldest first [19:38] Yeah, that's what I'm seeing; the non-graph topic first: http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches [19:38] *comment, not topic [19:38] <_Jens_> me too [19:38] clearing caches [19:39] caches cleared [19:39] now. what was the question? [19:39] <_Jens_> and that's good I think. So in my opinion as for the chronological order it's all fine. If it was just me, I'd remove the threading from the comments, but that's probably a question of taste [19:40] Yes that's it. I like it. What do others think? [19:40] Yeah, I agree, it's fine the way it is now [19:40] we can try the removal of the threading [19:40] it might suck [19:40] <_Jens_> well - it's three against one then. I believe in democracy :) [19:40] It will get really confusing with threading. [19:41] wanna see how it looks? [19:41] yeah go ahead: if you're gonna screw it up, screw it up big! ;) [19:41] Hmmm. I'll try it later with the site offline [19:41] http://www.centauri-dreams.org/ has a few SETI articles featured of recent [19:41] I really think the rejuxtapositioning of comments could be very confusing [19:42] if not creating false debates [19:42] I meant "It will get really confusing withOUT threading." [19:42] Okay, the main thing was really the chronological order bit, I'm not TOO concerned about threading, personally [19:42] <_Jens_> Yeah, the past discussions would be messy. Because in forums without threaded comments, people in their comments usually address each other which they probably haven't done here all the time. [19:43] agreed - so we're all set, I guess [19:43] Threading encourages conversation. [19:43] yeah [19:43] <_Jens_> yeah, so as you seem to prefer threaded comments, we leave it the way it is. And once people know, it is not a problem. Just the first glance you have to get used to [19:44] if there's a better way to depict it, we can try to figure it out [19:44] <_Jens_> devon: cool. How about to publish that in the forum? :) [19:45] The only problem with threading is that once you get a fairly large number of comments there's only a ridiculously small amount of space on the right left to display the comment: eg comment #20 here: http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/setistarsorg-launches [19:46] <_Jens_> How about permissions for Harry, Ed and me? Although as for now probably we have enough people with permissions... [19:46] Dunno - permissions, what for? All we're doing is complaining and sometimes forwarding comments to John ;) [19:47] *Jon, sorry# [19:47] It is a lot better than it was a year ago. The threading-level pixel increment was about 5 times greater back then. [19:47] can the ATA be used to detect trans-neptunian objects? [19:48] <_Jens_> well, if we had more spam, it would be useful, so that we could do some things on our own. But as for now it seems rather quest - probably thanks to the captchas [19:48] Hi _Jens_ what would you like perms to do [19:49] sigblips: yeah, I guess it isn't really an issue at the moment. We can always get back to this if it becomes a problem [19:49] <_Jens_> well, I just meant the standard administrative tools. Like deleting a comment or so. But as Harry pointed out - doesn't make too much sense for now. And I suppose you can do these things too. [19:50] oh, I'd just as soon not. I need to create the forum administrator role and can do that [19:51] would Arecibo still have funding? [19:51] i asked jon to email me your usernames, but you can tell me them here or by pm and I can see to it [19:51] devon, I believe so, but I could be, and often am, wrong [19:51] <_Jens_> Michael: For me it's Jens. [19:52] Okay, mine is 'nanobattery' (not that this is exceedingly hard to guess) [19:52] cute name [19:52] I suppose it might come in handy, since you guys are probably all in similar time zones [19:53] are you far away? [19:53] heh, it's a long story [19:53] okay [19:53] Me? Across the pond, mate ;) [19:53] old blighty then? [19:53] or the OTHER pond? [19:54] The Atlantic one, therefore, yes, I'm in 'le perfice Albion' [19:54] *perfide, [19:55] okay I gotta wrap up here. [19:55] aye, me too [19:55] Thanks for all your help [19:55] How did the Air Force decide to fund ATA? [19:55] you too [19:55] My reply to Jon is probably a good place to start. http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/Talk:Forum-helpers#Enough_Traffic_at_the_Start.3F [19:55] probably enough money to fuel one sortie over Iraq :p [19:55] devon, as it turns out, being able to detect very very faint signals in the sky is pretty interesting to the USAF [19:56] i am AFK now. [19:56] <_Jens_> bye Michael - and thanks for your time [19:56] *** Nick change: Michael1234 -> MichaelM [19:57] Fare thee well! I got to go too, I'll see ya'll next time [19:57] Bye Michael. [19:57] <_Jens_> bye harry [19:57] *** Nick change: MichaelM -> Guest99748 [19:57] thanks, bye [19:57] so I take it the USAF will be using a third hookup in the data stream at the ATA? #1 being Astronomy, #2 SETI [19:57] *** nanobattery left irc: Quit: Page closed [19:59] <_Jens_> Is it known why it's interesting to them? [20:00] devon_hillard: I don't know. The news articles listed at http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/about-space-junk-poll are probably the best sources of information available. [20:12] <_Jens_> well, I'll be going as well. Nice day to all of you [20:12] *** _Jens_ left irc: [20:13] *** Guest99748 left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer [20:42] *** emijrp joined #setiquest. [21:10] *** emijrp left irc: Remote host closed the connection [21:10] *** emijrp joined #setiquest. [22:59] *** emijrp left irc: Remote host closed the connection [00:00] --- Wed Sep 7 2011